Reno, Nevada is further west than is Los Angeles, California.

I read that and had to pull up ye olde map to look. I'll be danged.

As UJD corrected me long ago, it is "farther" west, not "further".

there's a trivia question along those lines...re state capitals.

(02-06-2024, 09:15 AM)Replying to RockmartDawg

Greenville SC is farther east than Savannah, Ga.

(02-06-2024, 09:20 AM)Replying to JC-DAWG83

Hmm, I don't know if I can handle learning two things in the same day... same MORNING, in fact (it is only 10:00 am). Fortunately I am on my 3rd cup of coffee. Still, though, I had to look that up, too. Per Ole' Man Merriam and Ole' Man Webster:

Some usage guides teach that farther refers to physical distance and further to figurative distance, but it might be better to let your ear guide you. Historically, these words have been interchangeable with regard to distance, but further is the preferred choice for the adverb meaning "moreover," the adjective sense meaning "additional," and as a verb ("to further one's career").

For most sets of commonly confused words a nice and simple ‘this word means X and that other word means Y’ sentence can be crafted. But here are certain exceptions; some pairs of words appear to have a simple distinction, but when inspected closer will soon have you questioning whether we can ever truly say that a word means anything. You know, like further and farther.

The case of further and farther has been common enough over the past hundred-plus years that dozens of usage guides have had a crack at coming up with a simple explanation. The most common quick answer is usually something along the lines of "farther is for physical distance and further is for figurative distance." As is often the case, however, simple rules run into the buzzsaw of actual usage.

Further down the river, the boat carrying Phillips and Pereira powered homewards through the darkness towards a perfect full moon.
— Tom Phillips, The Guardian (London, Eng.), 17 Jun. 2022

Without that last-minute salvation, I would have had to return next summer to get to St. Kilda, which is another (nearly) hundred miles further west.
— Neel Mukherjee, The New York Times 20 May 2018

The Origins of ‘Further’ vs. ‘Farther’
The problem of distinguishing between further and farther is compounded by the fact that each of these words can be an adverb, adjective, or a verb, and has multiple meanings in some of these parts of speech. In certain cases you would do well to use one over the other, in other cases there is a degree of leeway, and in still others it doesn’t much matter which one you use. Welcome to English.

Further is the older of the two, with farther originating from it as a variant in Middle English. For much of their history the words have been used interchangeably. As adverbs, they still are interchangeable when applied to distance (whether spatial, temporal, or metaphorical). Many usage guides will still recommend keeping farther reserved for literal distance and further for figurative, but there is enough recently published evidence of the figurative use of farther that it is difficult to say it is a mistake.

Go farther back in history and you find composers being equally subversive in clever, coded ways.
— Richard Morrison, The Times (London, Eng.), 22 Sept. 2017

As Adverbs
As adverbs, further and farther are not confined to distance, and this leads to one clearer distinction between the words. Further has the meaning of “moreover” or “additionally,” one that is not shared by farther. Farther does not work very well as a sentence adverb, and so it would sound rather awkward to begin a sentence with “Farther, I’d like to address the issue of why these words are so confusing.”

As Adjectives
When using these words as adjectives there are similar degrees of overlap and distinction. While both words are defined as carrying the meaning of “additional,” this role has now been almost entirely taken over by further.

He became aware that Mr. Jackson was clearing his throat preparatory to farther revelations.
— Edith Wharton, The Age of Innocence, 1920

”Well,” he began, without any further greeting….
— Katherine Anne Porter, Ladies’ Home Journal, Aug. 1971

It is easy enough to find writers, such as Edith Wharton, who in the past century have used farther to mean “additional," but this use has decreased enough in recent decades that you are advised to choose further. However, when using an adjective to refer to distance, either literal or figurative, the words are once again interchangeable (although further is increasing in frequency).

…a show of artists simply at work, whether making expressionistic paintings, idiosyncratic functional constructions, casting the further shores of socially activist conceptualism….
— Jerry Saltz, New York, 20 Mar. 2017

His business specializes in shellfish caught off the Mediterranean coast, including oysters from the Camargue and mussels from Bouzigues in southern France, though fruits de mer from farther shores, like Brittany lobsters, can also be found.
— Rathe Tep, The New York Times, 22 Jul. 2018

As Verbs
Finally providing use with a degree of clarity, further is the undisputed winner in the verb bloodfest (e.g., you attempt to further your career by pretending to work harder than you actually do). This is not to say that farther hasn’t also been used as a verb, but it is now rare enough that you can sneer at anyone who uses it in this fashion (just kidding; please do not sneer at people for their linguistic nonconformity).

We understand that people who are looking for usage guidance have a marked preference for single-sentence answers. In some cases it is not possible to distill hundreds of years of shifting usage into a few dozen words. If you come across a situation which the paragraphs above do not address, there is always the standard dodge given by usage guides when no clear answer is possible: let your ear guide you.

(02-06-2024, 09:15 AM)Replying to RockmartDawg

Here's another surprising fact:  

Atlanta is further west than ALL of South America.

(02-06-2024, 10:06 AM)Replying to RockmartDawg

Hmm, I don't know if I can handle learning two things in the same day... same MORNING, in fact (it is only 10:00 am). Fortunately I am on my 3rd cup of coffee. Still, though, I had to look that up, too. Per Ole' Man Merriam and Ole' Man Webster:

Some usage guides teach that farther refers to physical distance and further to figurative distance, but it might be better to let your ear guide you. Historically, these words have been interchangeable with regard to distance, but further is the preferred choice for the adverb meaning "moreover," the adjective sense meaning "additional," and as a verb ("to further one's career").

For most sets of commonly confused words a nice and simple ‘this word means X and that other word means Y’ sentence can be crafted. But here are certain exceptions; some pairs of words appear to have a simple distinction, but when inspected closer will soon have you questioning whether we can ever truly say that a word means anything. You know, like further and farther.

The case of further and farther has been common enough over the past hundred-plus years that dozens of usage guides have had a crack at coming up with a simple explanation. The most common quick answer is usually something along the lines of "farther is for physical distance and further is for figurative distance." As is often the case, however, simple rules run into the buzzsaw of actual usage.

Further down the river, the boat carrying Phillips and Pereira powered homewards through the darkness towards a perfect full moon.
— Tom Phillips, The Guardian (London, Eng.), 17 Jun. 2022

Without that last-minute salvation, I would have had to return next summer to get to St. Kilda, which is another (nearly) hundred miles further west.
— Neel Mukherjee, The New York Times 20 May 2018

The Origins of ‘Further’ vs. ‘Farther’
The problem of distinguishing between further and farther is compounded by the fact that each of these words can be an adverb, adjective, or a verb, and has multiple meanings in some of these parts of speech. In certain cases you would do well to use one over the other, in other cases there is a degree of leeway, and in still others it doesn’t much matter which one you use. Welcome to English.

Further is the older of the two, with farther originating from it as a variant in Middle English. For much of their history the words have been used interchangeably. As adverbs, they still are interchangeable when applied to distance (whether spatial, temporal, or metaphorical). Many usage guides will still recommend keeping farther reserved for literal distance and further for figurative, but there is enough recently published evidence of the figurative use of farther that it is difficult to say it is a mistake.

Go farther back in history and you find composers being equally subversive in clever, coded ways.
— Richard Morrison, The Times (London, Eng.), 22 Sept. 2017

As Adverbs
As adverbs, further and farther are not confined to distance, and this leads to one clearer distinction between the words. Further has the meaning of “moreover” or “additionally,” one that is not shared by farther. Farther does not work very well as a sentence adverb, and so it would sound rather awkward to begin a sentence with “Farther, I’d like to address the issue of why these words are so confusing.”

As Adjectives
When using these words as adjectives there are similar degrees of overlap and distinction. While both words are defined as carrying the meaning of “additional,” this role has now been almost entirely taken over by further.

He became aware that Mr. Jackson was clearing his throat preparatory to farther revelations.
— Edith Wharton, The Age of Innocence, 1920

”Well,” he began, without any further greeting….
— Katherine Anne Porter, Ladies’ Home Journal, Aug. 1971

It is easy enough to find writers, such as Edith Wharton, who in the past century have used farther to mean “additional," but this use has decreased enough in recent decades that you are advised to choose further. However, when using an adjective to refer to distance, either literal or figurative, the words are once again interchangeable (although further is increasing in frequency).

…a show of artists simply at work, whether making expressionistic paintings, idiosyncratic functional constructions, casting the further shores of socially activist conceptualism….
— Jerry Saltz, New York, 20 Mar. 2017

His business specializes in shellfish caught off the Mediterranean coast, including oysters from the Camargue and mussels from Bouzigues in southern France, though fruits de mer from farther shores, like Brittany lobsters, can also be found.
— Rathe Tep, The New York Times, 22 Jul. 2018

As Verbs
Finally providing use with a degree of clarity, further is the undisputed winner in the verb bloodfest (e.g., you attempt to further your career by pretending to work harder than you actually do). This is not to say that farther hasn’t also been used as a verb, but it is now rare enough that you can sneer at anyone who uses it in this fashion (just kidding; please do not sneer at people for their linguistic nonconformity).

We understand that people who are looking for usage guidance have a marked preference for single-sentence answers. In some cases it is not possible to distill hundreds of years of shifting usage into a few dozen words. If you come across a situation which the paragraphs above do not address, there is always the standard dodge given by usage guides when no clear answer is possible: let your ear guide you.
[/quote]

Other people using it incorrectly is not a valid defense.  UJD schooled me on it and it is a lesson I shall carry to my grave.

(02-06-2024, 11:06 AM)Replying to Concourse E

Here's another surprising fact:  

Atlanta is further west than ALL of South America.
[/quote]

Yes! That totally surprised me when I first found that out. I work with some folk who are in Brazil, and saw that they are 1 hour ahead of the Eastern time zone. I saw the map and noticed that every single bit of South America is fully east of us. I had no idea.

---

(02-06-2024, 11:18 AM)Replying to JC-DAWG83

Hmm, I don't know if I can handle learning two things in the same day... same MORNING, in fact (it is only 10:00 am). Fortunately I am on my 3rd cup of coffee. Still, though, I had to look that up, too. Per Ole' Man Merriam and Ole' Man Webster:

Some usage guides teach that farther refers to physical distance and further to figurative distance, but it might be better to let your ear guide you. Historically, these words have been interchangeable with regard to distance, but further is the preferred choice for the adverb meaning "moreover," the adjective sense meaning "additional," and as a verb ("to further one's career").

For most sets of commonly confused words a nice and simple ‘this word means X and that other word means Y’ sentence can be crafted. But here are certain exceptions; some pairs of words appear to have a simple distinction, but when inspected closer will soon have you questioning whether we can ever truly say that a word means anything. You know, like further and farther.

The case of further and farther has been common enough over the past hundred-plus years that dozens of usage guides have had a crack at coming up with a simple explanation. The most common quick answer is usually something along the lines of "farther is for physical distance and further is for figurative distance." As is often the case, however, simple rules run into the buzzsaw of actual usage.

Further down the river, the boat carrying Phillips and Pereira powered homewards through the darkness towards a perfect full moon.
— Tom Phillips, The Guardian (London, Eng.), 17 Jun. 2022

Without that last-minute salvation, I would have had to return next summer to get to St. Kilda, which is another (nearly) hundred miles further west.
— Neel Mukherjee, The New York Times 20 May 2018

The Origins of ‘Further’ vs. ‘Farther’
The problem of distinguishing between further and farther is compounded by the fact that each of these words can be an adverb, adjective, or a verb, and has multiple meanings in some of these parts of speech. In certain cases you would do well to use one over the other, in other cases there is a degree of leeway, and in still others it doesn’t much matter which one you use. Welcome to English.

Further is the older of the two, with farther originating from it as a variant in Middle English. For much of their history the words have been used interchangeably. As adverbs, they still are interchangeable when applied to distance (whether spatial, temporal, or metaphorical). Many usage guides will still recommend keeping farther reserved for literal distance and further for figurative, but there is enough recently published evidence of the figurative use of farther that it is difficult to say it is a mistake.

Go farther back in history and you find composers being equally subversive in clever, coded ways.
— Richard Morrison, The Times (London, Eng.), 22 Sept. 2017

As Adverbs
As adverbs, further and farther are not confined to distance, and this leads to one clearer distinction between the words. Further has the meaning of “moreover” or “additionally,” one that is not shared by farther. Farther does not work very well as a sentence adverb, and so it would sound rather awkward to begin a sentence with “Farther, I’d like to address the issue of why these words are so confusing.”

As Adjectives
When using these words as adjectives there are similar degrees of overlap and distinction. While both words are defined as carrying the meaning of “additional,” this role has now been almost entirely taken over by further.

He became aware that Mr. Jackson was clearing his throat preparatory to farther revelations.
— Edith Wharton, The Age of Innocence, 1920

”Well,” he began, without any further greeting….
— Katherine Anne Porter, Ladies’ Home Journal, Aug. 1971

It is easy enough to find writers, such as Edith Wharton, who in the past century have used farther to mean “additional," but this use has decreased enough in recent decades that you are advised to choose further. However, when using an adjective to refer to distance, either literal or figurative, the words are once again interchangeable (although further is increasing in frequency).

…a show of artists simply at work, whether making expressionistic paintings, idiosyncratic functional constructions, casting the further shores of socially activist conceptualism….
— Jerry Saltz, New York, 20 Mar. 2017

His business specializes in shellfish caught off the Mediterranean coast, including oysters from the Camargue and mussels from Bouzigues in southern France, though fruits de mer from farther shores, like Brittany lobsters, can also be found.
— Rathe Tep, The New York Times, 22 Jul. 2018

As Verbs
Finally providing use with a degree of clarity, further is the undisputed winner in the verb bloodfest (e.g., you attempt to further your career by pretending to work harder than you actually do). This is not to say that farther hasn’t also been used as a verb, but it is now rare enough that you can sneer at anyone who uses it in this fashion (just kidding; please do not sneer at people for their linguistic nonconformity).

We understand that people who are looking for usage guidance have a marked preference for single-sentence answers. In some cases it is not possible to distill hundreds of years of shifting usage into a few dozen words. If you come across a situation which the paragraphs above do not address, there is always the standard dodge given by usage guides when no clear answer is possible: let your ear guide you.
[/quote]

Other people using it incorrectly is not a valid defense.  UJD schooled me on it and it is a lesson I shall carry to my grave.
[/quote]

Count me as having been schooled on it today. I am prone to forget things like this, though. Although I think I'll always remember this one. Your visual you included is a helpful reminder. Muchas gracias.

How about if you head due south from Detroit, the first country you come to is Canada, or the distance between the Earth and the ISS is shorter than the distance between Atlanta and Miami.

(02-06-2024, 12:39 PM)Replying to dncdawg

How about the distance from Moscow to the farthest eastern point in Russia travelling east in Russia is the same as the distance from Moscow to Chicago if you travel west.

(02-06-2024, 12:39 PM)Replying to dncdawg

You made me think of something I saw, years ago, when I worked in downtown Atlanta. One morning while on my way in to work, with Cap'n Herb the traffic copter guy for WSB on the radio, there was a rocket launch scheduled  down at Cape Canaveral that morning. At some point when I am already inside the perimeter, heading east on I-20 (going to get off on the Spring Street exit), Cap'n Herb said that if you looked south you could actually see the smoke trail from the launch.

I, first, found it hard to believe. I'm still driving on I-20, trying to catch a look south if/when the opportunity arises, when there are trees, a hill, whatever, obscuring the view, when all of a sudden, there it was. It was the weirdest thing. The smoke trail was so clearly evident, it looked like it could have come up from Jonesboro, or something like that. The part that I was seeing was high-altitude and the upper elevation winds were already starting to whisp the smoke trail. But it was the darnedest thing to see it so plain as day from downtown Atlanta.

(02-06-2024, 10:06 AM)Replying to RockmartDawg

Hmm, I don't know if I can handle learning two things in the same day... same MORNING, in fact (it is only 10:00 am). Fortunately I am on my 3rd cup of coffee. Still, though, I had to look that up, too. Per Ole' Man Merriam and Ole' Man Webster:

Some usage guides teach that farther refers to physical distance and further to figurative distance, but it might be better to let your ear guide you. Historically, these words have been interchangeable with regard to distance, but further is the preferred choice for the adverb meaning "moreover," the adjective sense meaning "additional," and as a verb ("to further one's career").

For most sets of commonly confused words a nice and simple ‘this word means X and that other word means Y’ sentence can be crafted. But here are certain exceptions; some pairs of words appear to have a simple distinction, but when inspected closer will soon have you questioning whether we can ever truly say that a word means anything. You know, like further and farther.

The case of further and farther has been common enough over the past hundred-plus years that dozens of usage guides have had a crack at coming up with a simple explanation. The most common quick answer is usually something along the lines of "farther is for physical distance and further is for figurative distance." As is often the case, however, simple rules run into the buzzsaw of actual usage.

Further down the river, the boat carrying Phillips and Pereira powered homewards through the darkness towards a perfect full moon.
— Tom Phillips, The Guardian (London, Eng.), 17 Jun. 2022

Without that last-minute salvation, I would have had to return next summer to get to St. Kilda, which is another (nearly) hundred miles further west.
— Neel Mukherjee, The New York Times 20 May 2018

The Origins of ‘Further’ vs. ‘Farther’
The problem of distinguishing between further and farther is compounded by the fact that each of these words can be an adverb, adjective, or a verb, and has multiple meanings in some of these parts of speech. In certain cases you would do well to use one over the other, in other cases there is a degree of leeway, and in still others it doesn’t much matter which one you use. Welcome to English.

Further is the older of the two, with farther originating from it as a variant in Middle English. For much of their history the words have been used interchangeably. As adverbs, they still are interchangeable when applied to distance (whether spatial, temporal, or metaphorical). Many usage guides will still recommend keeping farther reserved for literal distance and further for figurative, but there is enough recently published evidence of the figurative use of farther that it is difficult to say it is a mistake.

Go farther back in history and you find composers being equally subversive in clever, coded ways.
— Richard Morrison, The Times (London, Eng.), 22 Sept. 2017

As Adverbs
As adverbs, further and farther are not confined to distance, and this leads to one clearer distinction between the words. Further has the meaning of “moreover” or “additionally,” one that is not shared by farther. Farther does not work very well as a sentence adverb, and so it would sound rather awkward to begin a sentence with “Farther, I’d like to address the issue of why these words are so confusing.”

As Adjectives
When using these words as adjectives there are similar degrees of overlap and distinction. While both words are defined as carrying the meaning of “additional,” this role has now been almost entirely taken over by further.

He became aware that Mr. Jackson was clearing his throat preparatory to farther revelations.
— Edith Wharton, The Age of Innocence, 1920

”Well,” he began, without any further greeting….
— Katherine Anne Porter, Ladies’ Home Journal, Aug. 1971

It is easy enough to find writers, such as Edith Wharton, who in the past century have used farther to mean “additional," but this use has decreased enough in recent decades that you are advised to choose further. However, when using an adjective to refer to distance, either literal or figurative, the words are once again interchangeable (although further is increasing in frequency).

…a show of artists simply at work, whether making expressionistic paintings, idiosyncratic functional constructions, casting the further shores of socially activist conceptualism….
— Jerry Saltz, New York, 20 Mar. 2017

His business specializes in shellfish caught off the Mediterranean coast, including oysters from the Camargue and mussels from Bouzigues in southern France, though fruits de mer from farther shores, like Brittany lobsters, can also be found.
— Rathe Tep, The New York Times, 22 Jul. 2018

As Verbs
Finally providing use with a degree of clarity, further is the undisputed winner in the verb bloodfest (e.g., you attempt to further your career by pretending to work harder than you actually do). This is not to say that farther hasn’t also been used as a verb, but it is now rare enough that you can sneer at anyone who uses it in this fashion (just kidding; please do not sneer at people for their linguistic nonconformity).

We understand that people who are looking for usage guidance have a marked preference for single-sentence answers. In some cases it is not possible to distill hundreds of years of shifting usage into a few dozen words. If you come across a situation which the paragraphs above do not address, there is always the standard dodge given by usage guides when no clear answer is possible: let your ear guide you.
[/quote]

My brain hurts. Thanks a lot, peckerneck.

(02-06-2024, 02:47 PM)Replying to JC-DAWG83

How about the distance from Moscow to the farthest eastern point in Russia travelling east in Russia is the same as the distance from Moscow to Chicago if you travel west.
[/quote]

Hadn't heard that one.  That is wild.

---

(02-06-2024, 02:52 PM)Replying to RockmartDawg

You made me think of something I saw, years ago, when I worked in downtown Atlanta. One morning while on my way in to work, with Cap'n Herb the traffic copter guy for WSB on the radio, there was a rocket launch scheduled  down at Cape Canaveral that morning. At some point when I am already inside the perimeter, heading east on I-20 (going to get off on the Spring Street exit), Cap'n Herb said that if you looked south you could actually see the smoke trail from the launch.

I, first, found it hard to believe. I'm still driving on I-20, trying to catch a look south if/when the opportunity arises, when there are trees, a hill, whatever, obscuring the view, when all of a sudden, there it was. It was the weirdest thing. The smoke trail was so clearly evident, it looked like it could have come up from Jonesboro, or something like that. The part that I was seeing was high-altitude and the upper elevation winds were already starting to whisp the smoke trail. But it was the darnedest thing to see it so plain as day from downtown Atlanta.
[/quote]

RIP Cap'n Herb.

Seeing a rocket trail from Cape Canaveral seems near impossible to me.  It would blow my mind too.

(02-06-2024, 02:52 PM)Replying to RockmartDawg

You made me think of something I saw, years ago, when I worked in downtown Atlanta. One morning while on my way in to work, with Cap'n Herb the traffic copter guy for WSB on the radio, there was a rocket launch scheduled  down at Cape Canaveral that morning. At some point when I am already inside the perimeter, heading east on I-20 (going to get off on the Spring Street exit), Cap'n Herb said that if you looked south you could actually see the smoke trail from the launch.

I, first, found it hard to believe. I'm still driving on I-20, trying to catch a look south if/when the opportunity arises, when there are trees, a hill, whatever, obscuring the view, when all of a sudden, there it was. It was the weirdest thing. The smoke trail was so clearly evident, it looked like it could have come up from Jonesboro, or something like that. The part that I was seeing was high-altitude and the upper elevation winds were already starting to whisp the smoke trail. But it was the darnedest thing to see it so plain as day from downtown Atlanta.
[/quote]
I saw the same thing years back from Forest Park, I was on Jonesboro Rd early in the morning by Ft Gillem near where the Chik Fila is now and looked off to the SE and saw the contrail as well as a faint glow from the rocket's engine. was fortunate enough to see a few launches from New Smyrna Beach years back, you could hear it breaking the sound barrier and even feel the "BOOM" in your body from the repercusion

(02-06-2024, 02:52 PM)Replying to RockmartDawg

You made me think of something I saw, years ago, when I worked in downtown Atlanta. One morning while on my way in to work, with Cap'n Herb the traffic copter guy for WSB on the radio, there was a rocket launch scheduled  down at Cape Canaveral that morning. At some point when I am already inside the perimeter, heading east on I-20 (going to get off on the Spring Street exit), Cap'n Herb said that if you looked south you could actually see the smoke trail from the launch.

I, first, found it hard to believe. I'm still driving on I-20, trying to catch a look south if/when the opportunity arises, when there are trees, a hill, whatever, obscuring the view, when all of a sudden, there it was. It was the weirdest thing. The smoke trail was so clearly evident, it looked like it could have come up from Jonesboro, or something like that. The part that I was seeing was high-altitude and the upper elevation winds were already starting to whisp the smoke trail. But it was the darnedest thing to see it so plain as day from downtown Atlanta.
[/quote]


I recall hunting one crystal clear morning down in south GA and my Uncle gave a "WTH is that?!" as we all turned to look south with him.  Finally, someone mentioned there was a space shuttle launch they though.  We could clearly see the boosters separating and falling.  

For years, I thought it may have been the Challenger disaster that I witnesses that morning and the falling boosters was actually debris, but that was on a Tuesday and I don't think I'd been outta school for any reason on that day.

Well Dawgies, been to school on THOTD, Right ON!!!!!

(02-06-2024, 03:10 PM)Replying to Sugarhilldawg

You made me think of something I saw, years ago, when I worked in downtown Atlanta. One morning while on my way in to work, with Cap'n Herb the traffic copter guy for WSB on the radio, there was a rocket launch scheduled  down at Cape Canaveral that morning. At some point when I am already inside the perimeter, heading east on I-20 (going to get off on the Spring Street exit), Cap'n Herb said that if you looked south you could actually see the smoke trail from the launch.

I, first, found it hard to believe. I'm still driving on I-20, trying to catch a look south if/when the opportunity arises, when there are trees, a hill, whatever, obscuring the view, when all of a sudden, there it was. It was the weirdest thing. The smoke trail was so clearly evident, it looked like it could have come up from Jonesboro, or something like that. The part that I was seeing was high-altitude and the upper elevation winds were already starting to whisp the smoke trail. But it was the darnedest thing to see it so plain as day from downtown Atlanta.
[/quote]
I saw the same thing years back from Forest Park, I was on Jonesboro Rd early in the morning by Ft Gillem near where the Chik Fila is now and looked off to the SE and saw the contrail as well as a faint glow from the rocket's engine. was fortunate enough to see a few launches from New Smyrna Beach years back, you could hear it breaking the sound barrier and even feel the "BOOM" in your body from the repercusion
[/quote]

That IS wild. It makes no sense to my little pea brain to be able to see something so clearly from so far away.

My only memory of any sonic boom is from when I was a little kid and, now and again, an airliner would cause one and it would gently rattle your windows in your house.