Of topic: Y'all think the EV's are going to make it?...

[JC-DAWG83]

I think there will be a decent market for it long term.  I think you can get a pretty good performing car at the moment for roughly equivalent to the cost (total ownership including fuel), with the only significant drawback being range, weight, and charging stations.  I think some of the mandates are going to result in more widely available charging stations.

Gas is relatively cheap at the moment all things considered.  The price of oil per barrel one of the biggest bargains on the planet and even when oil has been relatively expensive, that's still been the case.  Another decade like the 70s and you'd see a very rapid adoption of electric.

I do also like the potential for LNG powered cars like someone else already mentioned.  Anything we can do to make demand fuel for vehicles more elastic will help in the long run.

If govt mandates are required to create more charging stations, that will be proof that EVs are not going to make it long term imo.  If the product can't attract enough people to buy it in the free market and if the demand for charging stations isn't high enough for private businesses to build them, EVs aren't going to survive in any appreciable numbers.

There was no govt mandate to build gas stations when automobiles came about.  Market demand drove private businesses to build gas stations.  The govt cannot create demand for a product the public doesn't want.

200 miles of range from a Tesla supercharger costs about $22.  200 miles of range in a gas powered car that gets 30 mpg also costs about $22 and is much easier and more convenient to acquire.  People I know who have EVs love to gloat about not having to buy gas.  They conveniently ignore the fact they are buying electricity instead.  The drawbacks you cite are pretty considerable and you didn't mention how they go through sets of tires frightfully quickly and a set of tires for them is in the $1000 range.  Tesla warrants its batteries for 8 years or 120,000 miles, not exactly reassuring when you consider the Model 3 battery costs about $13,000 to replace.

EVs and green energy are the two biggest scams ever pulled on the US public.

[McDonoughDawg]

Y’all done gone and got political here, The Todd can’t catch a break.

[Milldawg]

I think there will be a decent market for it long term.  I think you can get a pretty good performing car at the moment for roughly equivalent to the cost (total ownership including fuel), with the only significant drawback being range, weight, and charging stations.  I think some of the mandates are going to result in more widely available charging stations.

Gas is relatively cheap at the moment all things considered.  The price of oil per barrel one of the biggest bargains on the planet and even when oil has been relatively expensive, that's still been the case.  Another decade like the 70s and you'd see a very rapid adoption of electric.

I do also like the potential for LNG powered cars like someone else already mentioned.  Anything we can do to make demand fuel for vehicles more elastic will help in the long run.

If govt mandates are required to create more charging stations, that will be proof that EVs are not going to make it long term imo.  If the product can't attract enough people to buy it in the free market and if the demand for charging stations isn't high enough for private businesses to build them, EVs aren't going to survive in any appreciable numbers.

There was no govt mandate to build gas stations when automobiles came about.  Market demand drove private businesses to build gas stations.  The govt cannot create demand for a product the public doesn't want.

200 miles of range from a Tesla supercharger costs about $22.  200 miles of range in a gas powered car that gets 30 mpg also costs about $22 and is much easier and more convenient to acquire.  People I know who have EVs love to gloat about not having to buy gas.  They conveniently ignore the fact they are buying electricity instead.  The drawbacks you cite are pretty considerable and you didn't mention how they go through sets of tires frightfully quickly and a set of tires for them is in the $1000 range.  Tesla warrants its batteries for 8 years or 120,000 miles, not exactly reassuring when you consider the Model 3 battery costs about $13,000 to replace.

EVs and green energy are the two biggest scams ever pulled on the US public.

Why do they go through tires? Is it the weight?

[JC-DAWG83]

I think there will be a decent market for it long term.  I think you can get a pretty good performing car at the moment for roughly equivalent to the cost (total ownership including fuel), with the only significant drawback being range, weight, and charging stations.  I think some of the mandates are going to result in more widely available charging stations.

Gas is relatively cheap at the moment all things considered.  The price of oil per barrel one of the biggest bargains on the planet and even when oil has been relatively expensive, that's still been the case.  Another decade like the 70s and you'd see a very rapid adoption of electric.

I do also like the potential for LNG powered cars like someone else already mentioned.  Anything we can do to make demand fuel for vehicles more elastic will help in the long run.

If govt mandates are required to create more charging stations, that will be proof that EVs are not going to make it long term imo.  If the product can't attract enough people to buy it in the free market and if the demand for charging stations isn't high enough for private businesses to build them, EVs aren't going to survive in any appreciable numbers.

There was no govt mandate to build gas stations when automobiles came about.  Market demand drove private businesses to build gas stations.  The govt cannot create demand for a product the public doesn't want.

200 miles of range from a Tesla supercharger costs about $22.  200 miles of range in a gas powered car that gets 30 mpg also costs about $22 and is much easier and more convenient to acquire.  People I know who have EVs love to gloat about not having to buy gas.  They conveniently ignore the fact they are buying electricity instead.  The drawbacks you cite are pretty considerable and you didn't mention how they go through sets of tires frightfully quickly and a set of tires for them is in the $1000 range.  Tesla warrants its batteries for 8 years or 120,000 miles, not exactly reassuring when you consider the Model 3 battery costs about $13,000 to replace.

EVs and green energy are the two biggest scams ever pulled on the US public.

Why do they go through tires? Is it the weight?

Weight and the direct drive motors on the wheels.  From what I've read, 20,000 miles per set of tires is about the best people do.

[ugafan49]

i know one place that they won't make,,,,,, my driveway. Right ON!!!!!

[DawgNatty]

i know one place that they won't make,,,,,,  my driveway.  Right ON!!!!!

Same brother man, same!!!

[UncleJohnsDawg]

I think 10% market share is going to be the ceiling.  EVs will be a luxury good/status symbol/virtue signal for the well to do.  The general public can only afford to buy one vehicle to do all things and an ICE vehicle can do all of those things and an EV can't.  The logistics and electricity demands for fast charging stations make them completely unprofitable unless the owner charges much more for a charge than a tank of gas costs.  Not counting the cost of the land, each fast charger costs around $200,000 and the electrical demand is staggering.  The cost of installing a charging point in a home is around $5000, assuming the home has enough electrical capacity in the service panel to handle the new charging point.  This expense is in addition to the cost of the EV.  Otherwise, charging on existing home wiring takes many, many hours.  The fast chargers, even the Tesla superchargers which are the best available now, take around 15 minutes to charge an EV for 200 miles of range.  If 2 cars are ahead of you in line, you will be at the charger for 45 minutes to get 200 miles of range.  A Suburban at a gas pump can get enough gas for 200 miles of range (around 12 gallons) in around 5 minutes.  If your Suburban or other ICE vehicle runs out of gas, you put a gallon or two into the tank and drive to a gas station and fill up and are on your way.  If your EV runs out of charge, you have to call a rollback and have your EV taken to a charging point. 

Weight and temperature extremes are the Achilles heels of EVs.  Extreme cold and heat really reduce the range of EVs and carrying a load really hurts their range too.  The Ford Lightning P/U has a range of around 250 miles under ideal circumstances but towing a 3000 lb trailer, about the weight of an average ski boat and trailer, cuts its range to around 80 miles.

I think mail delivery vehicles, school buses, park vehicles, utility meter reader vehicles, light local delivery vehicles, etc. are all great applications for EVs.  They all drive a low number of miles a day and all return to the same place every evening where they can be charged on regular 110 volt chargers overnight.  I think there are some great uses for them but I don't think being transportation for the general public is one of them.

I think that's about right.

[Rogasingingdawg]

Yes, they have their place.

And that place is not in my driveway or garage.