All this retirement talk...gets me thinking...how much is enough?

[DawgNatty]

seriously, no one has to talk about THEIR situation, but, how much is enough to actually retire?

I know this is a tough question with lots of variables including, but, not limited too:

Age
lifestyle
Debt (net worth)
health
insurance situation (if you've got this solved pre 65, you're ahead of the game)
Are you going to retire completely, or, are you dropping out of corporate America to do a more menial job?

I think many folks are looking to "retire" in their late 50's these days and do some job to get insurance.  That will likely be my plan.  

I think if you're late 50's, the number to be comfortable is $4-$5M.   This is considering you have decent health (not putting money toward it) and not in debt.  (1/3 of that number being accessible cash).

You can do it will far less, depending on your life style and if you're still willing to work at something.

[JC-DAWG83]

Unless you have or want to have a pretty luxurious lifestyle, I think $4-5M is way more than enough.  5% return on $4M is $200K a year.  Unless someone lives, or wants to live, in a pretty pricey area and live a fairly opulent lifestyle , $200K annually is a pretty good income.  If they are out of debt I don't know how they would burn through $16K a month every month long term.

[RockmartDawg]

$4-$5 million would (in my opinion) be wildly more than enough. Like JC says... it depends on your lifestyle.

It is interesting to read data given for what is said to be the "average" 401k account balances and the "median" 401k account balances, according to data provided by entities like Fidelity, even the federal reserve bank.

Here is a fairly recent article with what are said to be average balances according to age groups

This article, from 2023, includes data covering both average and median balances, per age group.

Obviously, what people have saved doesn't answer the question as to how much someone needs. That can vary, widely, again... according to desired lifestyle.

[Concourse E]

agree. Other variable is do you want to leave a legacy or die broke. You can use an annuity to make sure you have enough to live on until you die, but then there isn't anything left to pass on.

Another variable is how willing are you to be dependent on the government programs and other support available. I'm planning on being able to fund retirement without social security because I know they will screw people that actually saved for retirement eventually.

I don't really want to retire early, but I am planning on transitioning to more of a working for insurance and to tread water state. I've done a crappy job over the years of making my time off and leisure a priority. I'm hoping any work I do past 60 will be for the heck of it rather than needing to. Its a lot easier to make sure you are only thinking about work when you are on the clock if your funding future travel and inheritances rather than food and mortgage.

I don't think anybody in their right mind should retire early if they have any consumer debt. Maybe not even a mortgage. If you haven't paid it off while you are working, you aren't going to be able to when you are retired.

[DawgNatty]

You make a very reasonable point, and, $4M is probably a little high for a decent lifestyle. 4% is always the rule I've heard...meaning, be able to live on 4% return on what you have. It's tricky to calculate net worth vs. "money in the bank" I guess. If your house is worth a million dollars, and it's paid for, you still have taxes and other related expenses. Same with cars.

The cost of living has increased so much in the past 3+ years that it's much more scary than it used to be.

[RockmartDawg]

All great points. I had a "Great Reset" to occur when in my 40s... ala good ole' Tammy Wynette D-I-V-O-R-C-E (in her twang) and a lengthy period of having been laid off. I have to be honest, though... the Lord has been so good to me. I've actually rebounded, at least somewhat... in my mind. I'm trying to be as aggressive as possible to pay off my mortgage and get that out of my hair. I'm trying to keep any and all consumer debt either completely gone, or as low and manageable as possible if/when unfortunate situations arise. I don't want to go into retirement with ANY debt. I do need to keep choppin' wood, though.

On the social security front... I do hope they don't try to screw us over. I will need to depend on it to be there... not as sole sustenance but to at least fill a significant portion. I also started over with my retirement account when the Great Reset happened. Still choppin' wood, there. But I need to chop some more.

[Concourse E]

Most people live their entire lives needing a great reset and then hit their 60s with nothing to show for it.  So congratulations on timing that well.

As far as social security, I don't see how the program stays solvent without imposing some kind of means testing for eligibility.  I mean there are plenty of easy fixes that would be pretty painless and easy but but they haven't done anything in years.  There is an inherent flaw in the way the penalty for retiring early is calculated that could easily be fixed (the flaw is that you are penalized a certain rate per month before full retirement age but that monthly rate is less for 62-64 than it is for 64 to 67.  that's actually backwards from what it ought to be, it ought to cost you more penalty per month for the younger years than in the older years).  There are other really easy fixes (adding another 3 months to the full retirement age for example).  The fact that the easy stuff doesn't get fixed leads me to believe the complicated stuff like how to reduce benefits when it is out of trust funds aren't going to be logical or well thought out, but rather how the politicians can lose the last amount of votes.

[DawgNatty]

All great points. I had a "Great Reset" to occur when in my 40s... ala good ole' Tammy Wynette D-I-V-O-R-C-E (in her twang) and a lengthy period of having been laid off. I have to be honest, though... the Lord has been so good to me. I've actually rebounded, at least somewhat... in my mind. I'm trying to be as aggressive as possible to pay off my mortgage and get that out of my hair. I'm trying to keep any and all consumer debt either completely gone, or as low and manageable as possible if/when unfortunate situations arise. I don't want to go into retirement with ANY debt. I do need to keep choppin' wood, though.

One the social security front... I do hope they don't try to screw us over. I will need to depend on it to be there... not as sole sustenance but to at least fill a significant portion. I also started over with my retirement account when the Great Reset happened. Still choppin' wood, there. But I need to chop some more.
[/quote]

Keep chopping Rockmart...I didn't have the reset, but, I'm chopping as fast as I can.  I still think old Neal Boortz had the best saying for divorce.   "if you want to know what divorce is like, find a woman you hate and buy her a house.".

[RockmartDawg]

All great points. I had a "Great Reset" to occur when in my 40s... ala good ole' Tammy Wynette D-I-V-O-R-C-E (in her twang) and a lengthy period of having been laid off. I have to be honest, though... the Lord has been so good to me. I've actually rebounded, at least somewhat... in my mind. I'm trying to be as aggressive as possible to pay off my mortgage and get that out of my hair. I'm trying to keep any and all consumer debt either completely gone, or as low and manageable as possible if/when unfortunate situations arise. I don't want to go into retirement with ANY debt. I do need to keep choppin' wood, though.

One the social security front... I do hope they don't try to screw us over. I will need to depend on it to be there... not as sole sustenance but to at least fill a significant portion. I also started over with my retirement account when the Great Reset happened. Still choppin' wood, there. But I need to chop some more.
[/quote]

Keep chopping Rockmart...I didn't have the reset, but, I'm chopping as fast as I can.  I still think old Neal Boortz had the best saying for divorce.   "if you want to know what divorce is like, find a woman you hate and buy her a house.".
[/quote]

That's a good assessment of divorce. I have to be honest... in scope of many horror stories I have heard, I got reamed but there are people who got reamed way worse than me. I guess some of that can be attributed to my divorce being a lower-middle-class "Rockmart divorce", versus what I'll call a "Roswell divorce". I remember reading an article when the state was set to pass new child support laws concerning calculation (they had to, otherwise there were lawsuits waiting to happen). Some woman in Roswell was being paid something like $3,600 per month in child support, and under the new law it was going to drop to less than half of that. She just couldn't see how they were going to make it on that. But... the reason it was going to drop significantly is because she had a higher income than did her ex-husband. Under the new law HER income was also going to be calculated into the child support figure. Dang... poor thang. Oh, the humanity. She's actually one of the parents who are responsible for the children, too. Imagine that.

My income levels have never come close to sniffing some scenario like that being a possibility. I think I do OK, but not "that" OK. My kids are all grown and on their own, now. Those are days gone by, and that's good. Still.. got some wood yet to be chopped.

[Smokindawg]

I do what i want when i want!

[JC-DAWG83]

I could have retired at 40 but I decided I like sleeping indoors.

[redpantsdawg]

The harsh truth is most of us will be terminated from our jobs long before we want to retire. Companies don't want to pay for experience and they are willing to accept less knowledge and goal achievement in exchange for lower cost.

[RockmartDawg]

Yep. I see this HUGELY in the IT field. I've had to shake my head at some of the decisions when being told, "Did you hear? So-and-so got a package. Their last day is such-and-such." I've seen jobs move by the tens of thousands to places like India, China, Malaysia, and now I'm seeing more and more going into Vietnam. I'm seeing and hearing, now, of Indian companies (Tata Consulting, for example) posting job openings, here in the U.S.

I'm to the point that I would welcome a good package to leave. I'd need to figure out something to do for a couple more years before fully retiring. But that would not be a problem.

[redpantsdawg]

Yep. I see this HUGELY in the IT field. I've had to shake my head at some of the decisions when being told, "Did you hear? So-and-so got a package. Their last day is such-and-such." I've seen jobs move by the tens of thousands to places like India, China, Malaysia, and now I'm seeing more and more going into Vietnam. I'm seeing and hearing, now, of Indian companies (Tata Consulting, for example) posting job openings, here in the U.S.

I'm to the point that I would welcome a good package to leave. I'd need to figure out something to do for a couple more years before fully retiring. But that would not be a problem.
[/quote]

One financial planning tool I'm using is trying to generate as many passive activity streams of income as I can.  That way when the layoff comes, I'll already have an income stream to supplement severance and hopefully get me close to retirement.  Also Covid motivated me to eliminate all debt including a mortgage.  The great unknown is long term health.

[Milldawg]

Yep. I see this HUGELY in the IT field. I've had to shake my head at some of the decisions when being told, "Did you hear? So-and-so got a package. Their last day is such-and-such." I've seen jobs move by the tens of thousands to places like India, China, Malaysia, and now I'm seeing more and more going into Vietnam. I'm seeing and hearing, now, of Indian companies (Tata Consulting, for example) posting job openings, here in the U.S.

I'm to the point that I would welcome a good package to leave. I'd need to figure out something to do for a couple more years before fully retiring. But that would not be a problem.
[/quote]

One financial planning tool I'm using is trying to generate as many passive activity streams of income as I can.  That way when the layoff comes, I'll already have an income stream to supplement severance and hopefully get me close to retirement.  Also Covid motivated me to eliminate all debt including a mortgage.  The great unknown is long term health.
[/quote]

would be interested in hearing some ideas on passive income streams.....been thinking about the retirement topic a lot lately

[RockmartDawg]

Yep. I see this HUGELY in the IT field. I've had to shake my head at some of the decisions when being told, "Did you hear? So-and-so got a package. Their last day is such-and-such." I've seen jobs move by the tens of thousands to places like India, China, Malaysia, and now I'm seeing more and more going into Vietnam. I'm seeing and hearing, now, of Indian companies (Tata Consulting, for example) posting job openings, here in the U.S.

I'm to the point that I would welcome a good package to leave. I'd need to figure out something to do for a couple more years before fully retiring. But that would not be a problem.
[/quote]

One financial planning tool I'm using is trying to generate as many passive activity streams of income as I can.  That way when the layoff comes, I'll already have an income stream to supplement severance and hopefully get me close to retirement.  Also Covid motivated me to eliminate all debt including a mortgage.  The great unknown is long term health.
[/quote]

would be interested in hearing some ideas on passive income streams.....been thinking about the retirement topic a lot lately
[/quote]

I've looked online at some easy lower-paying stuff where you can work from home. I can type really well. I could be an administrative assistant or some type of customer service something-another... something just to kick the can down the road a short bit and to keep some type of money coming in, just to get by. I have no idea how much I'd want or need. But, regardless, I'll be able to make ends meet one way or another.

[DawgNatty]

Who are you addressing here?

[GriffWoody]

Looks like Ninja took care of #27.